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"New Jack" Author Ted Conover Talks About Going Undercover as a Prison Guard at Sing Sing

June 7, 2000

(CNN) -- Ted Conover, author of the book "New Jack: Guarding Sing Sing," joined Law Center for a chat on his experience as a prison guard at Sing Sing. "New jack" is a slang term for a rookie guard. Conover spent almost a year as a guard to experience what prison is really like, how it changes everyone from staff to inmates. Law Chat is sponsored by FindLaw. The chat with Conover was held Wednesday, June 7. Conover typed for himself. The following is an edited transcript of the chat:

Ted Conover, author of the book "New Jack: Guarding Sing Sing," joined Law Center for a chat on his experience as a prison guard at Sing Sing. "New jack" is a slang term for a rookie guard. Conover spent almost a year as a guard to experience what prison is really like, how it changes everyone from staff to inmates. Law Chat is sponsored by FindLaw. The chat with Conover was held Wednesday, June 7. Conover typed for himself. The following is an edited transcript of the chat:

Chat Moderator: Why did you decide to put yourself through the experience of becoming a prison guard at Sing Sing as part of the research for your book?

Ted Conover: This seemed to me a very important story, and I saw no other way to get it.

I wanted to follow a recruit through the corrections training academy in New York, but the state wouldn't allow it, so I applied to become a CO (corrections officer) myself.

Chat Moderator: What kind of training did you receive?

Ted Conover: We all received seven weeks of training at the academy in Albany, New York, and then three weeks, I think, at Sing Sing.

The training consisted of background on the law -- when we could use force, what different crimes actually mean -- in use of firearms and "chemical agents" (tear gas), and a little bit on how to deal with inmates.

Question from Tribe: How hard was it for you to leave your work at the prison and go home to family?

Ted Conover: Leaving prison behind at the end of the day is one of the great challenges of the job. Officers always tell you, "Leave it at the gate. Don't bring prison home. Don't treat your family like inmates." But that's easier said than done.

The first thing I'd done upon arriving home was sit down in front of my computer and type out my notes. That helped me decompress, get all the stress off my chest. Then I'd go see my kids and try to be a normal dad.

But when you're a rookie officer, or "new jack," you often don't have a lot of patience left.

Question from Scott Palmer 4 President 2000: Did you notice many of the guards building uncomfortably friendly relationships with the inmates?

Ted Conover: A few CO's did. It's a narrow line you walk, between wanting to be friendly, and being necessarily suspicious. I wanted to get to know inmates, but I was wary, as we'd been trained to be, of being manipulated.

You can't really call it a "friendship" with inmates, because you've got the keys and they're locked in a cage. They have everything to gain; you have much to lose.

Chat Moderator: What would you say is the most important thing you learned?

Ted Conover: That "brutal," a word commonly applied to guards, is better used to describe the prison system as a whole. The system, I found, makes you act in certain ways. It turns even a neutral, basically good-natured person like me against inmates.

Every day you get a little more stressed out -- insulted by inmates, physically intimidated, abused -- even if you're trying to treat them decently.

Question from Imagi: Ted, I've always wondered how so many druggies sent to prison cope with being cut off from drugs, or do they?

Ted Conover: Good question. As you've heard, practically all drugs are available in prison, if you have money and the right connections. Some come in through the Visit Room, many probably are brought in by guards.

This was one reason the state is worried about a lot of credit card debt when you apply for the job. They think it might make you susceptible to bribery.

Question from Tribe: Did you ever fear for your life to the point of nearly quitting?

Ted Conover: Yes. Several times, actually. Prison, at least a maximum-security, semi-chaotic prison like Sing Sing, is a very scary place. You have to repress your fear every day.

One day, I was sure a big fight was about to break out. The other two officers with me in the rec area felt it, too. We called a lieutenant, who agreed and slowly sent all the inmates back to their cells. Nothing happened, but it left me kind of shaky for a couple of days.

Then there was the day I got socked in the side of the head. An inmate made me lose my temper was what happened.

I told him to "shut up." Believe it or not, you're never supposed to use that kind of language with inmates, because they're so sensitive to disrespect.

He spit on me, too. I wasn't really hurt, but psychologically, it sort of turned me against them as a group, which I think of as a wound.

Question from Spring: Have you thought of reversing the roles and being an inmate?

Ted Conover: Now, that would be really scary!

Question from Tribe: Were the inmates aware that you planned to write a book on the experience, and if so, did anyone react?

Ted Conover: No, nobody was aware. I had to keep it a complete secret, or I'm sure I would've been fired, ostracized, beat up, et cetera.

I only began telling officers and the couple of inmates I knew best a few months ago. So far, the reaction has been positive.

Question from Jeryth: Do you believe non-violent victimless "criminals" -- i.e., Marijuana smokers or prostitutes -- should be sent to prison, or should that space be reserved for truly violent offenders?

Ted Conover: I think it's a horrendous mistake to stick nonviolent drug offenders into the same cellblocks with violent inmates. It makes them worse. It doesn't help them. Mandatory drug sentencing seems to me a terrible idea whose time should pass.

Question from Haley-CNN: Did you happen to find any prisoner that you were convinced was innocent of the crime they were serving time for?

Ted Conover: As you may know, most inmates seem to insist on their innocence. One old guy, doing his third state sentence, this one for rape, insisted to me at length that he was innocent. And his age made me wonder.

Then, six months after I quit, I was watching the nightly news. The announcer said, "Barry Scheck's Innocence Project freed another inmate on DNA evidence today."

And there was Habib, walking free out of prison. It blew me away.

Question from HiFlyer: What time of the day does the noise level in a prison begin to come down?

Ted Conover: They're supposed to be quiet at night, and it does quiet down around 9 p.m.

Question from Scott Palmer 4 President 2000: Did you notice many inmates that might be better rehabilitated if they were in less harsh a prison?

Ted Conover: Tons of inmates would be better served in a less harsh prison. Don't get me wrong. I met many inmates who made me think, in the words of Richard Pryor, "Thank God for penitentiaries."

But too many relatively gentle people get sent to maxes just because they have long sentences. That's not right.

Question from Imagi: I have heard that homosexuality is rampant in our prisons. Is that true?

Ted Conover: You can't have that many young men closely confined and not have sex in the air, so to speak. That said, I believe that most prison sex is consensual, not rape. And there's not a lot of it. Inmates in a well-run max are almost never out of sight.

In my book, I write a lot about the role of transvestites and transsexuals at Sing Sing, and how even "straight" inmates seemed transfixed by them. They just miss women so much!

Question from Denise: What is the average salary for entry-level prison guards? The saying "overworked and underpaid" comes to mind here.

Ted Conover: I started at about $23,600, and I think now a rookie's salary in New York is around $25,000. It's sort of the bottom tier of law enforcement. All you need is a high school diploma.

Chat Moderator: What is your next project?

Ted Conover: Recovery. Mowing the lawn. Spending time with the kids, and excavating my desktop.

This experience took a lot out of me. I'd love to soon find another story I can participate in. I think it adds so much to ordinary journalism.

Chat Moderator: Do you have any final thoughts for us today?

Ted Conover: It's funny. I quit two years ago, but in writing a book like this, I had to go back to prison every day.

Being a CO and being an inmate are very different things, but both groups spend long hours in this negative environment. Being a CO, somebody told me, is like "a 20-year sentence in eight-hour shifts."